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Talk:Gorn (Kelvin timeline)
Continuity errors "Houston, we have a problem." A cursory examination of this article makes it pretty clear that the video game Gorn have nothing in common with the canonical Gorn except the name (and being reptiles). Even if we play the alternate reality card, shouldn't be noted that the information is inconsistent with every form of "Star Trek," including the movie it was based on? (Remember, the official position is that the Abrams movies exist in another timeline that diverged in 2233; that means that the timeline were the same, therefore the alternate reality Gorn were an Alpha Quadrant species, not an extra-galactic species.) 02:35, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :You're right with what you say about the alternate timeline being just another timeline that diverged in 2233 following Nero's attacks; however, the Gorn of the game are canon to the new timeline according to the Producers of the film. It's also implied that New Vulcan is Cestus 3 by the game developers. - Nx1701g (talk) 02:55, May 1, 2013 (UTC) ::Okay, I haven't played the game, only read the descriptions of the plot, so maybe I've got some wrong info, but I don't think I made the point clear. ::The game postulates that the Gorn are an evil species from outside the galaxy that came to this one circa 2259 when the Vulcans used a device that opened wormholes (or the equivalent) to the Gorn galaxy. Excusing the non-canon novels, the TV shows give us reasonable information that the Gorn are not evil and come from our galaxy. The TOS episode "Arena" shows that they have territory in our galaxy predating TOS, which makes it hard to argue that they're newcomers from another galaxy. Even more damagingly, the ENT episodes "Bound" and "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" show that the 22nd century Gorn were in contact with the Orions and the Tholians. Since the prime universe and the alternate reality timelines are pretty much the same up till stardate 2233.04, 2233 AD, that means that the Gorn in the alternate reality have the exact same backstory as they did in the TV shows. (Even if you don't buy that, a Gorn appeared in a deleted scene for "Star Trek" 2009, which, although not canon, is not in favor of extra-galactic Gorn.) ::As far as the producers claiming the game canon, is that referring to the doublespeak they've given where they've basically said that it's canon, but not necessarily really canon? Even if they did proclaim it canon, it would still have to fall in line with the canon of the TV shows and movies, which directly contradict the game. Therefore, according to the rules that J.J. Abrams invented for the alternate reality, the game (or at least the Gorn's role in the game) is not a part of the canon "Star Trek" universe, alternate reality or otherwise. ::The only question I was raising was whether we should note the game's discrepancies the way other such things are called out. 13:01, May 1, 2013 (UTC) Yeah, it's pretty clear that these Gorn are not a version of the Gorn we know, alternate reality or not. As 146.57.192.65 notes, the Enterprise episodes "Bound" and "In a Mirror Darkly" already heavily implied the Gorn as existing in the Milky Way, and Enterprise is of course still in canon in the alternate reality. "Bound" even has a line referencing the "Gorn Hedgemony" by name. Not to mention the way the Gorn are depicted in "Arena" itself! Similar to the case with Delta Vega these Gorn seem to be more of an homage or reference to the original series rather than actually being the same. As with Delta Vega, it makes far more sense to assume they're unrelated and that the name is a coincidence. That way we avoid having to jump through all kinds of fanfiction-y hoops to try and justify the idea that they are related to the Gorn we already know. I propose the article be moved to Gorn (2013 video game) (or similar), and any reference to them being "alternate" versions of the other Gorn be removed. --Andorian Blues (talk) 02:41, May 14, 2013 (UTC) How about we just Say that the "Gorn Galaxy" was actually a Large Section of the Beta Quadrant that was never explored in the Alternate Reality. and in TOS The Term "Galaxy" is Mostly Used in Place of "Alpha Quadrant" in some Episodes. also the Gorn's Appearance was largely because of Genetic Engineering or its The "Actual" Appearance of the Gorn that Because of Budget Reasons wasn't able to be Created in the 1960s. :No offense intended but this is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of when I was talking about "fanfiction-y hoops" above. If we pretend they're the same as the other Gorn there's a lot of nonsense like this that needs to be dealt with. --Andorian Blues (talk) 23:52, August 27, 2013 (UTC) ::I agree with the notion above that these Gorn are another reptilian species and culturally distinct from Milky Way Gorn. If you wish to change the nomer from "(alternate reality)" into something else, I'd like to suggest "Gorn (extragalactic)", for simplicity's sake. –-- Markonian 06:40, August 28, 2013 (UTC) :::The video Star Trek The Video Game - Making the Game Part 2 indicates that these are supposed to be the same Gorn that first appeared in Arena, just "reimagined". We can't just say that this a completely different species that has the same name by coincidence. This isn't the first time we've seen the same species portrayed in an extremely inconsistent way. The Chodak from Future's Past look completely different from the Chodak in A Final Unity. :::Issue 24 of the IDW comics, seems to be a sequel to Star Trek The Video Game, but the Gorn in that issue seem to be half-way between the prime universe Gorn and the Video Game Gorn. Their bodies look like the Gorn Warrior from the Video Game, but they have no tails and and they don't have different subspecies. NetSpiker (talk) 06:30, April 6, 2016 (UTC) :::The Star Trek/Green Lantern series is also set in the Abramsverse, but it's depiction of Gorn is much closer to the prime universe. The Gorn homeworld is now said to be in the Tau Lacertae system and the Gorn have multifaceted eyes and plantigrade feet, but the nostrils are still located above the eyes. NetSpiker (talk) 08:39, April 6, 2016 (UTC) According to the Starfleet Command game: "The Gorn race was actually three species who were genetically identical and lived on three separate worlds. After they achieved space travel, the three Gorn races discovered one another and learnt of their similarity whereupon it was discovered, through fossil records, that none of their planets was their races true homeworld." What if their true homeworld was actually in another galaxy and the three planets were simply lost colonies? 02:57, June 1, 2017 (UTC)